DS #13 thoughts

[Ian 'Cat' Vincent]

Thoughts on first reading:

Last bit first... the backmatter, though interesting as a snapshot of how it all began, doesn't add an awful lot.

That Nicole is a minx, isn't she? Deliberately seducing Mars because of his connection to Sing or just 'cos she fancied him? (Hope it's the former, as frankly the guy's just a ego-maniac braindead jock as far as I can see...)

Reinhardt-in-cell - assisted suicide, as he'd finished his work, the 'sequel' to Darkening Sky - or that's how Nurse tells it!
DS dialogue possibly implying Reinhardt-in-cell was someone who assumed Reinhardt's identity, rather than simply (!) a copy/clone/tulpa of Original Reinhardt?

"A guidebook to why everything has to die."
"Everything except us."
"I never said that."

I still like the theory that immenentizing the eschaton, in DS's plan, isn't so much starving the Cthulhu-creatures who want to eat us, but poisoning them...

What happens to the Reinhardt Manuscript, now that the Grinders entrusted with copying it are in the hands of Albert Cannon? Is DS aware of Cannon? Is letting the manuscript be taken by Cannon part of the plan?
(We know the plan isn't flawless - DS did not predict the death of Max Cale or his being able to see the Angel.)
(Or... is DS actually aware that Nurse killed Cale and is putting on an act for her benefit??)

Great little 4th Gen Warfare 101 bit there.

DS finally fucking Nurse. "Nasty nasty moral bonds." And clearly things are taking their toll on DS - he's exhausted, can barely stand and has a little sexual difficulty. Hmm...

The pacing of the six-frame pages and the time-shifting, unsettling and strident. Lovely.

Nicole - "Johnny, Johnny, Johnny. Was this really the plan all along?" How much does she know?

Sing and Berlin team-up. Just need Alex Singer to join up and my prediction comes true! (Bwa-ha-ha...)

Mars getting St. Theresa's Eyes?

"Erase the traces." The ultimate revenge/takedown against a panopticon society.

That's all I got for now. Bring it, Grinders!

[Ian 'Cat' Vincent]

From the Whitechapel discussion, there's some thought as to the sequence of Dok-on-Nurse-action juxtaposed with DS broadcasting as signifying there are actually (a minimum of) two Doktors.

We've certainly had hints - the mirror rant, the Grinder tattoo on his back coming and going... I suspect this will be a major point, and pretty soon.

Really hoping to hear your thoughts on this issue, after so long!

[Mark Crabtree]

Loved this issue, the wait is annoying, but there's good reason to remain patient. And the swirling jumble of events this issue shows what a bloody good writer Warren Ellis is.

Thoughts:

backmatter... doesn't add an awful lot

The only thing I really noticed was the fact the candles on page 1 weren't mentioned, so the changing lengths probably isn't a clue.

implying Reinhardt-in-cell was someone who assumed Reinhardt's identity

I've always suspected the tulpa stuff was metaphor/red herring, although if the broadcast & fucking Doktors are supposed to be simultaneous rather than just shown out of sequence then there's still more explaining to do.

Mars getting St. Theresa's Eyes?

My thoughts too, I wonder how he'll react.

Also:

I loved the screaming angel statue and wall of masks in Reinhardt's house. Very nice detail.

And a slightly more tenuous theory: the Doktor is setting up Nurse Igor to oppose him. We don't know whether or not there's been more of a relationship between them before this issue and the "except us" line suggest she expects special treatment from him. Nurse hasn't been in love before, and nothing teaches you how to hate better than being in love.

[Ian 'Cat' Vincent]

"the Doktor is setting up Nurse Igor to oppose him"
Oh that's a nice idea.

[Stephanie Wilson]

backmatter... doesn't add an awful lot

Yes and no. I've asked on WC before about the asterisks in Sings' clatter, thinking they might denote the person is male, but Warren replied no in WC. Regardless, they are specifically noted in the script so they are important for a reason - just need to figure out what.



Nurse hasn't been in love before, and nothing teaches you how to hate better than being in love.

Yes. But it isn't wise to piss off a woman, especially one that can kill you so easily.

[Ian 'Cat' Vincent]

"But it isn't wise to piss off a woman, especially one that can kill you so easily."
Maybe that's the point. Maybe that's part of the endgame - for someone (Sing, Nurse) to kill DS. Or one of him.
Vague, I know - but we all suspect that there's very little left to chance in this story.

(Good catch on the asterisks!)

[Grim]

I'm not sure how the diaglog regarding cell-Reinhardt shows that he's a completely different person than a clone/copy/tulpa. Care to elaborate? I figure if there are multiple copies/clones/tulpa's one would have to refer to the others in the semi-affectionate tone that DS seems to adopt.

As for the montage, I wonder if the radio-Sleepless is the Nurse-Sleepless due to DS's mental disorders. We know that DS talks to himself (DS #2 in the bathroom at the club). It's certainly seems possible that Sleepless is psychotic and has multiple personalities. The radio-Sleepless could be DS's internal monologue, or even a live broadcast from the ware inside his head.

[Mark Crabtree]

The radio-Sleepless could be DS's internal monologue, or even a live broadcast from the ware inside his head.

That would be pretty cool.

Care to elaborate?

He seems to be reffering to him as a completely seperate entity, plus it would seem odd to have to lend him the Darkening Sky as the split presumably happened after he read it. Although, if they still are talking about tulpa's then presumably The Man In Cell 23 would have to be the original, as he was killed rather than dissolved.


Some minor thoughts I forgot last time round:

Avatar are always good with adverts, but to have an issue with one single page given to adverts is pretty good value for money. And I like Bleeding Cool anyway!

I love the wrap cover, I'm gonna miss Raulo. Not that Juan Jose Ryp is a lightweght, of course.

Pertinent timing on the healthcare issues, considering the current situation in America. Presumably it's all part of Obama's plan to implant the poor with zombie tags and burn the country to the ground. Or something.

[Stephanie Wilson]

Mars getting St. Theresa's Eyes?

He's an ass, I'm just sad the virus won't kill him.

[Stephanie Wilson]

Deliberately seducing Mars because of his connection to Sing or just 'cos she fancied him?

I think a little of both, but leaning towards the fancied him more.

[Stephanie Wilson]

What happens to the Reinhardt Manuscript, now that the Grinders entrusted with copying it are in the hands of Albert Cannon?

I disagree with this, I think the Grinder already dropped the Reinhardt Manuscript off after he got nabbed by Dr. Albert Cannon. The guy is shown walking away from a building, empty-handed, back towards the car.